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Bloggers #20, Tuxford on Tier 3 Battleships

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 5 post(s)
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.25 18:39:00 - [1] Personally i think the gallente ship looks the most fun. Light, fast and probably more dps than you can swing a nerfbat at. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.25 18:42:00 - [2] Originally by: Jerick Ludhowe Well I'm sad, 5% bonuss to cap when fitting MWD is one of the most pointless bonusses in the game :(. Aside from the Hyperion I have no complaints, Abaddon looks like it will be rather intresting, Maelstor is going to be an absolute beast, and the Rokh is going to become the king of long range fleet combat. You are? It sounds like the perfect close combat ship to me... fast to get in range, more cap left for fight... whats not to like? Damn, i want it and im minmatar. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.25 18:46:00 - [3] Originally by: Talori'i Originally by: Aversin On second though what are we getting for a slot layout? Abaddon - 8/3-4/8 No mention of the slot layout for everything else, PLEASE don't give us (minmatar) 5 slots to tank with :( that would just be a cruel joke. My guess for Minmatar will be getting something like 7 mid 5 lowslots. The Hyperion though is kind of odd, I would love a Gallente with 8 low slots. Although who knows it might follow the "odd" gallente ships and get like 6 mid and 6 lows. I hope it gets at least 6 medium slots to take full advantage of that tanking bonus. Basicly you will fit it like a Raven tank. Imagine this ship with implants btw. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.25 18:52:00 - [4] Originally by: Hakera Edited by: Hakera on 25/07/2006 18:49:53 not seen the base prices but im guessing around 150mill, the best one there looks like the abaddon to me, the pure ultra high damage setup combined with cap injectors and natural racking of lasers will be ganktastic as big replacement to the gankgeddon. The caldari comes of as a equip 425mm and sit at 250k ship which seems kinda boring but hey ho the minmatar, well as pointed out ony 1 projectile bonus, and a tempest equiping just 2*cruise alongside the regular 6 turrets will outdamage it. the mealstrom is basically a big cyclone but again the shield bonus limits it because its med slots cant be used for ewar, although it will have more hp, most likely more mass as well so using it as an c boat will be risky at best. Depending on its drone bay really which will make a difference. It may well be the best mining ship in game though... since these are T1 i hope we wil this time be able to open test them rather than the blind wait we have with T2 ships. I really hope amarr is happy with their ship. Its been much whine about them not being happy lately, so i hope this new ship shuts them up. And i think the minnie one will be a uber tanker with a MEAN alpha strike. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.25 18:54:00 - [5] Originally by: Sarmaul If it were to be 8/7/4... 800mm AC II x 8 MWD II Faint 20km Fleeting Web Heavy Elec Cap Booster X-Large Booster II Invul II x 2 Gyrostab II x 3 PDU/Tracking/DC x 1 Come on CCP, you know you want to!!! /emote imagines ship with Crystals... Dont make them nerf this beauty before its released! --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.25 19:03:00 - [6] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 25/07/2006 19:03:38 Edited by: Jim McGregor on 25/07/2006 19:03:11 Originally by: Moornblade Why use the Rokh to snipe? Why not use blasters and have an 18km optimal range? Im hoping it will be very slow with large mass to make that kind of setup difficult. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.25 19:07:00 - [7] Originally by: Sarmaul Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: Sarmaul If it were to be 8/7/4... 800mm AC II x 8 MWD II Faint 20km Fleeting Web Heavy Elec Cap Booster X-Large Booster II Invul II x 2 Gyrostab II x 3 PDU/Tracking/DC x 1 Come on CCP, you know you want to!!! /emote imagines ship with Crystals... Dont make them nerf this beauty before its released! God just imagine if you have dedicated tacklers - mwd, cap booster + 5 slot tank Yeah, and we'll need it to stand a chance against the Hyperion... im already worried about that thing crushing my ship in two hits. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.25 19:10:00 - [8] Originally by: Ath Amon i'm veeeeery disappointed by minnie ship close range the tempest will probably be better... not that matter that much anymore as minnies have no more usefull close range ships with both phoon and tempest outclassed by then new gall and amarr ships long range will be a bit better than the pest but not really by much... Not if the minnie bs have 7 medium slots. Then it will be able to take a real beating which hopefully makes the hyperion struggle with breaking the tank. At least thats what im hoping for. What it lacks in dps it may gain in tanking instead. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.25 19:13:00 - [9] Originally by: HippoKing Originally by: Ather Ialeas Originally by: HippoKing I take it you have never flown gallente, because you are just kneejerk trolling. That is exactly the bonus many of the gallente blaster ships (like Deimos/Thorax) have. Indeed I haven't, I apparently (thank Gods) misunderstood that bonus. Originally by: HippoKing Faction mods are not valid for balancing of ships. They are only important for balancing faction mods. Maybe I was hinting at something completely different with that comment? Read between the lines Gist is pretty uber The ship better not REQUIRE gist to be good... then it will be too expensive to pvp in. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.25 22:43:00 - [10] Originally by: Tuxford Woah a lot of replies, but I guess that was to be expected. I'll try to get around to reading most of this tomorrow, have only just glanced it just yet. Few points though Abaddon, someone said it best with this ship has the potential to be awesome or horrible. Probable the one that scares me the most. Rokh, it does take something away from the Eagle thats really correct but tbh so does about every other battleship out there. I mean with double range bonuses it has 2.25x the range of any other cruiser and battleship turrets have base range 2x times longer than battleship turrets, so as you can imagine the problem existed long before tier 3 battleship were mentioned. Hyperion, we couldn't really have satisfied everyone here, some want blaster boat other want some sort of drone dampening boat, and some others might want a long range tank. We decided on blaster boat, the way it is now I don't think it makes Megathron obsolete. Maelstrom, its a minmatar ship that can tank,... its so crazy that its gotta work. Lack of screenshots I can be so daft sometime. The real reason I was waiting with this blog is so I could create a decent screenshot of Abaddon and Maelstrom in battle but the development server was all funky and I was going to ask Hammer to help me doing it but I forgot Ok, looking forward to 1) Screenshots! 2) Slot layouts! 3) Powergrid/CPU for each ship For the record, i hope the maelstrom has 7 medium slots. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate

Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.25 22:53:00 - [11] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 25/07/2006 22:54:40 Originally by: Gierling Trust me as planned the Hyperion would be an absolute dream (heck it would save me so much time npcing), and as planned the Rokh would help my alliance more then any other (lots of folk can only fly Caldari, imagine all those raven pilots tossed into a rokh with even tech I 425's) Considering how many people who probably already have skilled up caldari battleship for the Raven, i think the Rokh will be very, very popular as a fleet sniper short after its introduction into the game. The amarr one will be a dps monster, the minnie one a shield boosting beast and the gallente one is a fast and agile pure blasterboat. They are all different and all pretty cool. Personally i will use the maelstrom for ganking people with artillery. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.26 07:59:00 - [12] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 26/07/2006 08:04:11 Edited by: Jim McGregor on 26/07/2006 08:01:30 These ships are not supposed to replace the tier 1/2 ships. Only thing i expected was more slots and some different purpose for the ships than other tiers. For amarr, it will quickly become a pvp favorite. Tuxford says it will not be able to tank AND gank, but with projectiles mounted, it will be easy. The dps might not be that uber without any rof bonuses to them though, but i think probably good enough. For gallente, some people seems to want more speed and more agility without giving anything except targeting range up. The boat doesnt give tracking bonuses because damage + tracking combined with more speed and agility would be OVERPOWERED. Are you even interested in game balance? Imagine being chased down by one of these things... how would you avoid it in another ship? You cant. So not making it a uber rampage ship is good for balance. For caldari, I expected a sniper myself. There was really no chance it would become a close range blaster ship. Now, some people will try to fit it like that since it has a range bonus. Hopefully its slow and with a big mass to make that sort of fitting difficult, otherwise caldari suddenly have some massive dps there. For minnies, the boat is a big cyclone which will be difficult to solo pvp in with 7 medium slots. Booster + amp is needed and that leaves 5 medium slots. If 3 of these are taken for MWD,webber,disruptor, only 2 remains for hardeners. It might be possible to slap 2 invulnerability fields on there though and get a good tank still. But i think the ship will show its true color when you have dedicated tacklers in the gang. The DPS sucks on this ship, but it can tank instead, which is kind of crazy but cool... Might also be possible to both tank and run some ecm on this thing if you have tacklers. Before you flame, remember that we all might have wanted something different. I wanted a fast minnie ship with the current bonuses of the Hyperion actually. But i dont cry about it.. i think all these new ships will show their value when they are introduced. People will like them i think, specially Amarr (for once). --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.26 14:01:00 - [13] Originally by: DigitalCommunist I think I speak for us all when I say we expected a long, detailed post from you. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.26 15:48:00 - [14] Originally by: rgreat Damage below 1000 DPS. Only point blank range. It will suck. Spoken like a true gallente. I realize gallente ships have to have good dps to break tanks, but you do realize that most of us only see damage like that when we get wrecking hits... Oh well, if i like gallente so much, i should train for them... :) --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.26 16:31:00 - [15] Originally by: DigitalCommunist I can still post it here if you like, but to summarize.. snip Yeah, please do. Personally Im really enjoying reading what people think of the balance when it comes to these ships, and you have a nice reputation for having good opinions it seems. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.26 17:18:00 - [16] Originally by: Mangus Thermopyle As I said earlier, a blaster boat is pretty useless, and only works in very specific situations. But if it has to be a blaster boat (and CCP wants Gallente to get the worst tier3 BS), atleast give it some real bonuses like: - no CAP penalty for mwd - 20%/level falloff - 10%/level tracking - 5%/level damage Only with stats like this will it truly be a good BS for closerange. And only with stats like this will it be able to stand a chance against torp-Raven and nos-Domi in a close range 1-on-1. Its not like minnie ships can beat those ships either you know, unless having a specific setup. Not sure why you want to balance the new gallente ship based on the ability to beat those 2 really good ships... --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.26 19:37:00 - [17] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 26/07/2006 19:53:21 Originally by: DigitalCommunist Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: DigitalCommunist I can still post it here if you like, but to summarize.. snip Yeah, please do. Personally Im really enjoying reading what people think of the balance when it comes to these ships, and you have a nice reputation for having good opinions it seems. Aiight. Blame him! Oooops. Edit: I knew you would write lots of stuff... going to print it out and have a look at it. Your post is one of the few that doesnt have "I fly X, and it looks to pwn, so all is fine" all over it (me included). Your post is very fleet battle oriented though, but thats just something people will have to take into consideration when reading it. Thanks for posting. Now im going to read. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.26 22:12:00 - [18] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 26/07/2006 22:16:39 Originally by: DigitalCommunist very long post OK, Ive read the post(s) and I like the ideas of keeping the roles of the 3 Amarr battleships separated. As i understand your post: Armageddon. Ship to use when you need the most dps you can get and you dont care about trying to outlast the opponent. Pure gankage. Apocalypse. Ship to use when you need lasting power. While not having as high dps as the Armageddon, the cap bonuses makes it last longer and are more suited to wearing down the opponent while still having a decent tank. Abaddon. Ship to use when you want the best tank. Bonuses becomes +5% armor hitpoints and +5 resistances to level, making this ship the hardest to take down and the one who last the longest in the fleet. With its 8 low slots, it can fit a massive amounts of plates, 3 damage mods and reactor controls (to fit the biggest guns). Amarr pilots will have to comment on these ideas, but to me they sound pretty cool. Every ship in the amarr fleet will remain the best for a certain purpose. Rokh. Yes, its overpowered. Because of the massive range bonuses (antimatter at 54km range, megathron has 36km), the ship essentially has a built-in 11.4% damage bonus as well as the double range bonus it enjoys (10%). So its like 3 bonuses really, to all 8 turrets this ship has. It can only be Caldari. Also im sure its fun with blasters. Your solution to this is to nerf the ship to 6 turrets/4 launchers. Caldari ships never had lots of turrets and most of the previous ones have both turrets and missiles. So yeah, might be a good solution. I dont really know. Hyperion. This is the ship im most worried about myself, since i fly minmatar ships in pvp. And you say in your post, the Hyperions speed and agility combined with its high damage renders the AC Tempest completely obselete. If i understood you correctly the ship can probably also run double large reppers? Im disappointed the Hyperion isnt a minmatar ship tbh. I felt speed and agility was their domain. Maelstrom. You feel this ship is balanced since it will give minmatar a good alpha strike with artillery, but that it should be slower than the Tempest so its not practical to be fitted with autocannons. But im not sure what will happen to the AC Tempest after the Hyperion is introduced? This is my biggest concern, specially since the Maelstrom is a slow ship. Is it supposed to sit and tank damage while firing artillery? --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.26 22:28:00 - [19] Originally by: Nebuli Very true, and I can buy into that to a degree, problem is I can see the Caldari one actualy being better with blasters than the gal one. Shameless linkage --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.26 22:44:00 - [20] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 26/07/2006 22:44:13 Originally by: Nebuli Well done, a nice little graph that realy doesnt prove anything. A graph purely showing dps proves NOTHING. Blaster ranis has higher dps than crow as well, does that mean ranis pwns crow all the time? no. Domi has lowest dps of all BS, does that mean all BS wtfpwn it? no. EVE ship balance is entirely dependant on its dps. Umm, i just linked it from Ships & Modules. It isnt mine. I figured you guys wanted to know the dps. Of course you are right it doesnt say everything about a ship. In fact, dps hardly means anything. The one who stays on his feet the longest always win. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate

Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.27 13:02:00 - [21] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 27/07/2006 13:04:20 Originally by: Xiliath OMG, Let the Maelstrom have 7 mid slots, If you do I'll never petition anything ever again!!!!!!!!111 Nope, according to preliminary tier 3 bs stats it has 6 medium slots. Caldari got the 8/7/5 layout and the Gallentes faster blasterboat gets 6 mediums too. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.29 12:05:00 - [22] Ths stats were old, so they arent really valid. I hope tier 3 doesnt give Caldari or Gallente another win button. Its getting old. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.29 16:54:00 - [23] Originally by: Mangus Thermopyle Originally by: Jim McGregor Ths stats were old, so they arent really valid. I hope tier 3 doesnt give Caldari or Gallente another win button. Its getting old. Well, Gallente seems to get a "I Lose" button. Guess they felt the Dominix was enough then. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.31 09:48:00 - [24] Originally by: Lucian Alucard Ok heres my gripe this maintains the current imbalance of ships that exists and fixes nothing. The Amar tier 3 bs is doing what the Apoc should,the Mael is doing what the phoon should and the Hyperion is doing what the thron should. Only the Rohk is remotely tolerable. So the phoon should have been a long range artillery boat? Well, let me be the first to say that I thank god every day that that didnt happen. Instead it has turned out to be one of the best pvp battleships in the game. Maybe this was a "accident" since minnies usually get shafted, but im happy about it. Maelstrom will be a slow artillery shield tanker and nothing like the others. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate

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